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	<title>Comments on: Who doesn&#039;t want to be a &quot;rich professor&quot;?</title>
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	<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/</link>
	<description>a blog exploring Christian origins, biblical studies, social/cultural history, method, education and the journey through academia</description>
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		<title>By: Jay Matthew Barnes</title>
		<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Matthew Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/#comment-503</guid>
		<description>Patrick, on top of all that I have read in your post and the comments, tenure is not so &quot;lifelong&quot; anymore.  Many colleges and universities are eroding tenure as we speak and not just tenure reviews either.

Say, for instance, that you find yourself at a more-conservative-than-you-are school and you receive tenure.  Then you publish a paper on the Christology of the Fourth Gospel and in it you struggle with the Gospel&#039;s historicity.  Your university could fire you or demote you, tenured or not, for not adhering to the theological commitments that the regents/board approved and that you agreed to when accepting a position there.

In this increasing polarized politco-religious environment we had all better take along our metal detectors because its a minefield out there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick, on top of all that I have read in your post and the comments, tenure is not so &#8220;lifelong&#8221; anymore.  Many colleges and universities are eroding tenure as we speak and not just tenure reviews either.</p>
<p>Say, for instance, that you find yourself at a more-conservative-than-you-are school and you receive tenure.  Then you publish a paper on the Christology of the Fourth Gospel and in it you struggle with the Gospel&#8217;s historicity.  Your university could fire you or demote you, tenured or not, for not adhering to the theological commitments that the regents/board approved and that you agreed to when accepting a position there.</p>
<p>In this increasing polarized politco-religious environment we had all better take along our metal detectors because its a minefield out there!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick George McCullough</title>
		<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-502</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick George McCullough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/#comment-502</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughts, April! It is great to hear from your experience. That&#039;s pretty much the image that I have. But I don&#039;t think that people outside of this career track have much idea of what it&#039;s really like. When my wife told her coworkers what I expect to make after getting a PhD, they didn&#039;t believe her.

I have been getting the doomsday warning from almost every professor I&#039;ve talked to since I realized academia is where I feel I need to go. And yet I still go. I think it&#039;d be great to get thoughts from blogging tenured professors on why they still do it, why they don&#039;t go get more money for doing something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts, April! It is great to hear from your experience. That&#8217;s pretty much the image that I have. But I don&#8217;t think that people outside of this career track have much idea of what it&#8217;s really like. When my wife told her coworkers what I expect to make after getting a PhD, they didn&#8217;t believe her.</p>
<p>I have been getting the doomsday warning from almost every professor I&#8217;ve talked to since I realized academia is where I feel I need to go. And yet I still go. I think it&#8217;d be great to get thoughts from blogging tenured professors on why they still do it, why they don&#8217;t go get more money for doing something else.</p>
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		<title>By: April DeConick</title>
		<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-498</link>
		<dc:creator>April DeConick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/#comment-498</guid>
		<description>Patrick,

Hum.  I don&#039;t know how these stats are come by, but let me tell you about the profession from the trenches.  Being on a tenure-track job means that you are on probation for six years, with no guarantee that you will be renewed for the seventh or any after that.  In those six years, you are expected to teach 3 to 4 classes a semester, depending on where you land a job.  Very few out of graduate school land jobs where you teach 2 and 2.  In addition, you are required to advise students for general education requirements and majors, teach the courses that the senior faculty don&#039;t want to teach themselves, serve on a number of committees to demonstrate your commitment to the university community, publish a book or two, regularly give papers at conferences.  It is publish or perish. Even doing all of this does not guarantee tenure.  The time it takes to prep. each class is more than it takes to teach the class.  Grading can take over your life if you aren&#039;t careful.  So don&#039;t believe the blissful business that these magazines espouse.  It is nonsense.

As for salaries.  Well I think you can expect an offer in the lower 40s from most universities today.  You creep up slowly, and I mean slowly.  When you advance to associate professor with tenure, universities usually give you a bump of $1000-2000.  It&#039;s not much.  You continue along like this until you get full professor which is at least 10 years after you start the job - that&#039;s probably the best case scenario.  You get another bump.  So it&#039;s really at the end of your career that you see anything beyond the 70s.

The reason for the averages of 70 or 80 is because the fields are disparate.  Professors in the sciences and business especially get HIGH salaries, because they are wanted by other professions who are willing to pay.  Humanities professors get the lowest of all salaries.  There are a few humanities scholars that rise up and get fairly competitive salaries because a couple of universities are willing to fight over them.  But this is the exception, not the rule.

April</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick,</p>
<p>Hum.  I don&#8217;t know how these stats are come by, but let me tell you about the profession from the trenches.  Being on a tenure-track job means that you are on probation for six years, with no guarantee that you will be renewed for the seventh or any after that.  In those six years, you are expected to teach 3 to 4 classes a semester, depending on where you land a job.  Very few out of graduate school land jobs where you teach 2 and 2.  In addition, you are required to advise students for general education requirements and majors, teach the courses that the senior faculty don&#8217;t want to teach themselves, serve on a number of committees to demonstrate your commitment to the university community, publish a book or two, regularly give papers at conferences.  It is publish or perish. Even doing all of this does not guarantee tenure.  The time it takes to prep. each class is more than it takes to teach the class.  Grading can take over your life if you aren&#8217;t careful.  So don&#8217;t believe the blissful business that these magazines espouse.  It is nonsense.</p>
<p>As for salaries.  Well I think you can expect an offer in the lower 40s from most universities today.  You creep up slowly, and I mean slowly.  When you advance to associate professor with tenure, universities usually give you a bump of $1000-2000.  It&#8217;s not much.  You continue along like this until you get full professor which is at least 10 years after you start the job &#8211; that&#8217;s probably the best case scenario.  You get another bump.  So it&#8217;s really at the end of your career that you see anything beyond the 70s.</p>
<p>The reason for the averages of 70 or 80 is because the fields are disparate.  Professors in the sciences and business especially get HIGH salaries, because they are wanted by other professions who are willing to pay.  Humanities professors get the lowest of all salaries.  There are a few humanities scholars that rise up and get fairly competitive salaries because a couple of universities are willing to fight over them.  But this is the exception, not the rule.</p>
<p>April</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick George McCullough</title>
		<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-501</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick George McCullough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/#comment-501</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing those stories, Pistol and Drew. I think it helps just to hear how people go about things in their own journeys.

And thanks for finding my blog and interacting with several things today, Drew. It&#039;s always good to have a new visitor :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing those stories, Pistol and Drew. I think it helps just to hear how people go about things in their own journeys.</p>
<p>And thanks for finding my blog and interacting with several things today, Drew. It&#8217;s always good to have a new visitor <img src='http://patmccullough.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-500</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/#comment-500</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s my predicament.  I was lucky enough to land a good job in higher edu. administration right out of seminary and and now pretty comfortable in a job that allows me to do college administration and to pursue things on an intellectual level (which the job is itself anyway).  My dilemma is when I finish that dissertation (I hope this year) then what?  I could get that ordination finished as well but I am not sure if that&#039;s what I want to do.  I could stay the course in academic administration, but the college president is not where I want to be, at least in the future I see right now (that is a PR and CEO position more than anything).  If I go to assistant faculty it is an instant 20-30% pay cut which is not possible right now.

So it is an interesting predicament of when to pay your &quot;dues&quot; as it were.  Probably the best thing is to do it as early as you can.  After three years you will be up for promotion as most institutions.  Just start publishing peer-reviewed articles as soon as you can to get a jump on publications.  Use the papers you write for classes as starting points for that if possible!  The more you do now, the easier it is to get that tenure portfolio together later.  And get to know the chair of the promotion committee.  It&#039;s usually a very subjective process even though they always advertise otherwise...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s my predicament.  I was lucky enough to land a good job in higher edu. administration right out of seminary and and now pretty comfortable in a job that allows me to do college administration and to pursue things on an intellectual level (which the job is itself anyway).  My dilemma is when I finish that dissertation (I hope this year) then what?  I could get that ordination finished as well but I am not sure if that&#8217;s what I want to do.  I could stay the course in academic administration, but the college president is not where I want to be, at least in the future I see right now (that is a PR and CEO position more than anything).  If I go to assistant faculty it is an instant 20-30% pay cut which is not possible right now.</p>
<p>So it is an interesting predicament of when to pay your &#8220;dues&#8221; as it were.  Probably the best thing is to do it as early as you can.  After three years you will be up for promotion as most institutions.  Just start publishing peer-reviewed articles as soon as you can to get a jump on publications.  Use the papers you write for classes as starting points for that if possible!  The more you do now, the easier it is to get that tenure portfolio together later.  And get to know the chair of the promotion committee.  It&#8217;s usually a very subjective process even though they always advertise otherwise&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: pistolpete</title>
		<link>http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/comment-page-1/#comment-499</link>
		<dc:creator>pistolpete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patmccullough.com/2008/01/07/who-doesnt-want-to-be-a-rich-professor/#comment-499</guid>
		<description>A friend of mine received his Ph.D. in theology from Vanderbuilt about a dozen years ago.  He did well and came with many recommendations.   Since that time, he has been serving as a pastor in medium-large size churches.  He&#039;s had some offer from universities and seminaries, but he would have to take a significant pay cut and with three children, he&#039;s opted not to do it.

Right or wrong, a pastor&#039;s salary package is often more lucrative than the professor who educated him/her.  But I guess this is true in many fields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend of mine received his Ph.D. in theology from Vanderbuilt about a dozen years ago.  He did well and came with many recommendations.   Since that time, he has been serving as a pastor in medium-large size churches.  He&#8217;s had some offer from universities and seminaries, but he would have to take a significant pay cut and with three children, he&#8217;s opted not to do it.</p>
<p>Right or wrong, a pastor&#8217;s salary package is often more lucrative than the professor who educated him/her.  But I guess this is true in many fields.</p>
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